The Gaming Den

Calibron wrote:Skill points are done away with entirely. Instead you are considered Untrained, Competent, or Expert in a certain skill; Untrained means you effectively have no ranks in the skill and when trying to use it you roll an ability check, and may not be able to use the skill at all if training is required, Competent effectively means you the maximum amount of ranks you could have in a cross-class skill, and Expert effectively means you have max ranks in a skill.

How it is decided what skills a character is Untrained, Competent, or Expert in is this: At character creation all characters get a number of points equal to twice what they would normally get when leveling up, a character can put one point into any skill and have it go from Untrained to Competent, a character can put one more point into a Competent skill that is a class skill for them and make that skill Expert.

Concerning multi-classed characters with differing skill points per level: If any one class, or classes with the same skill points per level, makes up at least three quarters of your class levels use that value; if you have roughly equal amounts of two different SPPL values then remove half of the difference from the higher SPPL value to calculate how many points you get at character creation. If things are a bit more muddled than that then take the average of the SPPL values.

When characters multi-class into classes with different SPPL values as they level up you may have to alter their expertise level with a skill or two. If the character in question has three quarters or more of their levels in classes with the same SPPL value then just use that value; if the new class has a difference in SPPL value of two and does not roughly equal half of your character levels then continue to use the majority value. If the difference of new SPPL value and the old is greater than 2 and the number of new class levels is more than a quarter, but less than half, of your character level either down grade one Expert skill to Competent(if the new value is lower), or give the player another point to spend(if the value is greater. When adding enough new levels of a class with a difference in SPPL value of 2 to roughly equal half of you character level downgrade an Expert skill to competent or give the player a new point to spend as appropriate. When adding enough new levels of a class with a difference in SPPL value of 4 to go from over one quarter to roughly half of you character level downgrade an Expert skill to Competent or give the player a new point to spend as appropriate. When adding enough new levels of a class with a difference in SPPL value of 6 to go from over one quarter to roughly half of you character level downgrade two Expert skills to Competent or give the player two new points to spend as appropriate.

When a character’s intelligence bonus goes permanently up for a number of levels equal to one quarter your total level you gain one “skill point” per point of Int Bonus increase. You gain this number of points again when the total number of levels you’ve possessed increased intelligence equals one half you total level and again when they equal three quarters of your total level.

Calibron wrote:A number of skills are no longer taken individually and have been absorbed into other skills.
1. Knowledge Psionics is now part of the Knowledge Arcana skill
2. Knowledge Dungeoneering is no longer a skill, the natural portions of underground areas are now covered by the Knowledge Nature skill, and Abberations and the like is covered by Knowledge Arcana.
3. Knowledge Religion is no longer a skill, the portions concerned with gods, goddesses, divine realms, and such are covered by Knowledge The Planes, the portions concerning mythic history, ecclesiastical tradition, and holy symbols are covered by Knowledge Local, and information about Undead is covered by Knowledge Arcana.
4. Knowledge History, Nobility and Royalty, and Geography are now covered by the Knowledge Local skill.
5. Knowledge Architecture and Engineering is no longer a skill and is now covered by whichever Knowledge skill is most appropriate for the structure(usually Knowledge Local).
6. Use Psionic Device is now part of the Use Magic Device Skill.
7. Jump, Swim, and Climb are one skill called Athletics.
8. Balance and Tumble are one skill called Acrobatics.
9. Appraise, Forgery, and Decipher Script are now one skill called umm…Appraise
10. Gather Information is now part of the Sense Motive skill.
11. Bluff and Disguise are one skill called Deception
12. Diplomacy and Intimidate are one skill called Communicate
13. Open Lock is now part of the Disable Device skill
14. Escape Artist, Sleight of Hand, and Use Rope are one skill called Umm…something.
15. Ride is now part of the Handle Animal skill.
16. Listen, Spot, and Search are one skill called Awareness.
17. Hide and Move Silently are one skill called Stealth.
18. Perform now teaches on new instrument or method of performance with every skill point.
19. Profession is no longer a skill; you can make money by Performing, Crafting, using Knowledge, Appraise, Handle Animal, Heal, or any number of other ways to make yourself useful to other people. If you want a specific profession for story purposes you can just have it without spending character resources.
20. Survival and Heal are one skill called Survival.
21. Craft is a single skill.
22. Auto-Hypnosis is dumb and therefore not a skill anymore.

Concerning multi-classed characters with differing skill points per level: If any one class, or classes with the same skill points per level, makes up at least three quarters of your class levels use that value; if you have roughly equal amounts of two different SPPL values then remove half of the difference from the higher SPPL value to calculate how many points you get at character creation. If things are a bit more muddled than that then take the average of the SPPL values.

Crissa at [unixtime wrote:1189299475[/unixtime]]...But I couldn't follow this. Does this mean your skill pips could go down?

Crissa at [unixtime wrote:1189299475[/unixtime]]Would this be simpler? ( sum[skillpoints from levels] * 2 ) / character level

Crissa at [unixtime wrote:1189299475[/unixtime]]The skill bonuses from being Intelligent seems still somewhat unbalancing. Of course, the Wizard-Sorceror class gets skill points assuming intelligence while the Rogue does not. It means for games where multiclassing is allowed, Rogue is the best first level and Sorceror is the worst.

MrWaeseL at [unixtime wrote:1192245161[/unixtime]]So you increased the amount of skill points a character gets

MrWaeseL at [unixtime wrote:1192245161[/unixtime]]you reduced the amount of skill points needed to max a skill from level+3 to 2

MrWaeseL at [unixtime wrote:1192245161[/unixtime]]you reduced the amount of skills available?

Calibron at [unixtime wrote:1189162821[/unixtime]]
When characters multi-class into classes with different SPPL values as they level up you may have to alter their expertise level with a skill or two. If the character in question has three quarters or more of their levels in classes with the same SPPL value then just use that value; if the new class has a difference in SPPL value of two and does not roughly equal half of your character levels then continue to use the majority value. If the difference of new SPPL value and the old is greater than 2 and the number of new class levels is more than a quarter, but less than half, of your character level either down grade one Expert skill to Competent(if the new value is lower), or give the player another point to spend(if the value is greater. When adding enough new levels of a class with a difference in SPPL value of 2 to roughly equal half of you character level downgrade an Expert skill to competent or give the player a new point to spend as appropriate. When adding enough new levels of a class with a difference in SPPL value of 4 to go from over one quarter to roughly half of you character level downgrade an Expert skill to Competent or give the player a new point to spend as appropriate. When adding enough new levels of a class with a difference in SPPL value of 6 to go from over one quarter to roughly half of you character level downgrade two Expert skills to Competent or give the player two new points to spend as appropriate.

Simplified Skill List wrote:Knowledge INT
Arcana (Spellcraft, Psonics, Devices, Aberrations, Undeath)
Nature (Animals, Plants, Physical)
Local (History, Geography, Religion, Nobility, Symbols, Legends)
Planes (History elsewhere, Divine, Outsiders, Myths)
Athletics (Jump, Swim, Climb) STR
Acrobatics (Balance, Tumble) DEX
Awareness (Listen, Spot, Search) WIS
Decipher (Appraise, Forgery, Decipher Script) INT
Deception (Bluff, Disguise) CHR
Devise (Disable Device, Engineering, Open Locks, Disable Rune) INT
Husbandry (Handle Animal, Train Animal, Ride) WIS
Guile (Diplomacy, Intimidate) CHR
Legerdemain (Escape Artist, Sleight of Hand, Use Rope) DEX
Sense Motive (Sense Motive, Gather Information) WIS
Stealth (Hide, Move Silently) DEX
Survival (Heal, Survival) WIS +1 climate zone per skill pip
Perform (Perform, Script) CHR +1 performance form per skill pip
Concentration (Concentration, Scry) CON *
Spellcraft (Spellcraft, Scry) INT *
Use Magic Device (Use Psionic Foci) CHR *
Craft (Craft, Profession, Field of Study) INT
* - Restricted